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Autoru Poruka
PostPoslato: 18 Avg 2012, 12:37 
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Pridružio se: 21 Okt 2008, 01:08
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Neki kažu sa su špijunke, neki da su umobolne, da su attention whores, da su ovo, da su ono...Meni izgledaju kao klinke koje se sprdaju s putinom i vladikom. Al' pusti i vladiku i putina i amere koji kenjaju po "tamnoj" Rusiji, ali đe ćeš ovaku malu u zatvor? Đe će ti duša Vladimire, crni sine? To se vodi na palačinke, drži za ruku, gleda u oči itd sve po redu...kakav zatvor jebote?
Upozoravam, zika je bezze...
prevod
Spoiler:
Nadezhda Tolokonnikova

By and large, the three members of Pussy Riot are not the ones on trial here. If we were, this event would hardly be so significant. This is a trial of the entire political system of the Russian Federation, which, to its great misfortune, enjoys quoting its own cruelty toward the individual, its indifference toward human honor and dignity, repeating all of the worst moments of Russian history. To my deep regret, this poor excuse for a judicial process approaches Stalin’s “troikas.” We too have only an interrogator, a judge, and a prosecutor. Furthermore, this repressive act is executed based on political orders from above that completely dictate the words, deeds, and decisions of these three judicial figures.

What was behind our performance at the Cathedral of Christ the Savior and the subsequent trial? Nothing other than the autocratic political system. Pussy Riot’s performances can either be called dissident art or political action that engages art forms. Either way, our performances are a kind of civic activity amidst the repressions of a corporate political system that directs its power against basic human rights and civil and political liberties. The young people who have been flayed by the systematic eradication of freedoms perpetrated through the aughts have now risen against the state. We were searching for real sincerity and simplicity, and we found these qualities in the yurodstvo [the holy foolishness] of punk.

Passion, total honesty, and naïveté are superior to the hypocrisy, mendacity, and false modesty that are used to disguise crime. The so-called leading figures of our state stand in the Cathedral with righteous faces on, but, in their cunning, their sin is greater than our own.

We put on political punk performances in response to a government that is rife with rigidity, reticence, and caste-like hierarchal structures. It is so clearly invested in serving only narrow corporate interests, it makes us sick just to breathe the Russian air. We categorically oppose the following, which forces us to act and live politically:

—the use of coercive and forceful methods for regulating social processes; a situation when the most important political institutions are the disciplinary structures of the state: the security agencies (the army, police, and secret services), and their corresponding means of ensuring political “stability” (prisons, pre-emptive detention, all the mechanisms of strict control over the citizenry);

—imposed civic passivity among the majority of the population,

—the complete dominance of the executive branch over the legislative and judicial.

Moreover, we are deeply frustrated by the scandalous dearth of political culture, which comes as the result of fear and that is kept down through the conscious efforts of the government and its servants (Patriarch Kirill: “Orthodox Christians do not attend rallies”); the scandalous weakness of the horizontal ties within society.

We do not like that the state so easily manipulates public opinion by means of its strict control over the majority of medial outlets (a particularly vivid example of this manipulation is the unprecedentedly insolent and distorted campaign against Pussy Riot appearing in practically every Russian media outlet).

Despite the fact that we find ourselves in an essentially authoritarian situation, living under authoritarian rule, I see this system crumbling in the face of three members of Pussy Riot. What the system anticipated did not occur; Russia does not condemn us, and with each passing day, more and more people believe in us and that we should be free, and not behind bars.

I see this in the people I meet. I meet people who work for the system, in its institutions, I see people who are incarcerated. Every day, I meet our supporters who wish us luck and, above all, freedom. They say what we did was justified. More and more people tell us that although they had doubts about whether we had the right to do what we did, with each passing day, more and more people tell us that time has shown that our political gesture was correct—that we opened the wounds of this political system, and struck directly at the hornet’s nest, so they came after us, but we. . . .

These people try to relieve our suffering as much they can, and we are very grateful to them. We are also grateful to everyone who speaks out in support of us on the outside. There are many supporters, and I know it. I know that a great number of Orthodox Christians speak out on our behalf, the ones who gather near the court in particular. They pray for us; they pray for the imprisoned members of Pussy Riot. We’ve seen the little booklets the Orthodox pass out containing prayers for the imprisoned. This fact alone demonstrates that there is no single, unified group of Orthodox believers, as the prosecutor would like to prove. This unified group does not exist. Today, more and more believers have come to the defense of Pussy Riot. They don’t think that what we did warrants a five-month term in a pretrial detention center, let alone three years in prison, as the prosecutor has called for.

Every day, more people understand that if the system is attacking three young women who performed in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior for thirty seconds with such vehemence, it only means that this system fears the truth, sincerity, and straightforwardness we represent. We have never used cunning during these proceedings. Meanwhile, our opponents are too often cunning, and people sense this. Indeed, the truth has an ontological, existential superiority over deception, and this is described in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament.

The paths of truth always triumph over the paths of cunning, guile, and deception. Every day, truth grows more victorious, despite the fact that we remain behind bars and will probably be here for a long time.

Yesterday, Madonna performed in Moscow with “Pussy Riot” written on her back. More and more people see that we are held here illegally, on false pretences. This amazes me. I am amazed that truth really does triumph over deception. Despite the fact that we are physically here, we are freer than everyone sitting across from us on the side of the prosecution. We can say anything we want and we say everything we want. The prosecution can only say what they are permitted to by political censorship. They can’t say “punk prayer,” “Our Lady, Chase Putin Out,” they can’t utter a single line of our punk prayer that deals with the political system.

Perhaps they think that it would be good to put us in prison because we speak out against Putin and his regime. They don’t say so, because they aren’t allowed to. Their mouths are sewn shut. Unfortunately, they are only here as dummies. But I hope they realize this and ultimately pursue the path of freedom, truth, and sincerity, because this path is superior to the path of complete stagnation, false modesty, and hypocrisy. Stagnation and the search for truth are always opposites, and in this case, in the course of this trial, we see on the one side people who attempt to know the truth, and on the other side people who are trying to fetter them.

A human being is a creature that is always in error, never perfect. She quests for wisdom, but cannot possess it; this is why philosophy was born. This is why the philosopher is the one who loves wisdom and yearns for it, but does not possess it. This is what ultimately calls a human being to action, to think and live in a certain way. It was our search for truth that led us to the Cathedral of Christ the Savior. I think that Christianity, as I understood it while studying the Old and especially the New Testament, supports the search for truth and a constant overcoming of oneself, the overcoming of what you were earlier. It was not in vain that when Christ was among the prostitutes, he said that those who falter should be helped; “I forgive them,” He said. I do not see this in our trial, which takes place under the banner of Christianity. Instead, it seems to me that the prosecution is trampling on religion.

The lawyers for the [official] “injured parties” are abandoning them—that is how I interpret it. Two days ago, [one of the “injured party”‘s lawyers] Alexei Taratukhin made a speech in which he insisted that it should be clear that under no circumstances should anyone assume that the lawyer agrees with the parties he represents. In other words, the lawyer finds himself in an ethically uncomfortable position and does not want to stand for the people who seek to imprison Pussy Riot. I don’t know why they want to put us in prison. Maybe they have the right to, but I want to emphasize that their lawyer seems to be ashamed. Perhaps he was affected by people shouting “Executioners! Shame on you!” I want to point out that truth and goodness always triumph over deception and malice. It also seems to me that prosecution attorneys are being influenced by some higher power, because time after time, they slip up and call us “the injured party.” Almost all of the lawyers have accidentally said this, and even prosecution attorney Larisa Pavlova, who is very negatively disposed toward us, nonetheless appears to be moved by some higher power when she refers to us as “the injured party.” She does not say this about those she represents, but about us.

I don’t want to label anyone. It seems to me that there are no winners, losers, victims, or defendants here. We all simply need to reach each other, connect, and establish a dialogue in order to seek out the truth together. Together, we can seek wisdom and be philosophers, instead of stigmatizing people and labeling them. That is the last thing a person should do. Christ condemned it. With this trial, the system is abusing us. Who would have thought that man and the state he rules could, again and again, perpetrate absolutely unmotivated evil? Who could have imagined that history, especially Stalin’s still-recent Great Terror, could fail to teach us anything? The medieval Inquisition methods that reign in the law enforcement and judicial systems of our country, the Russian Federation, are enough to make you weep. But from the moment of our arrest, we have stopped weeping. We have lost our ability to cry. We had desperately shouted at our punk concerts. With all our might, we decried the lawlessness of the authorities, the governing bodies. But now, our voices have been taken away. They were taken from us on March 3, 2012, when we were arrested. The following day, our voices and our votes were stolen from the millions at the so-called elections.

During the entire trial, people have refused to hear us. Hearing us would mean being receptive to what we say, being thoughtful, striving toward wisdom, being philosophers. I believe that every person should strive for this, and not only those who have studied in some philosophy department. A formal education means nothing, although prosecution attorney Pavlova constantly attempts to reproach us for our lack of education. We believe the most important thing is to strive, to strive towards knowledge and understanding. This is what a person can achieve independently, outside the walls of an educational institution. Regalia and scholarly degrees mean nothing. A person can possess a great deal of knowledge, but not be a human being. Pythagoras said extensive knowledge does not breed wisdom. Unfortunately, we are here to affirm that. We are here only as decorations, inanimate elements, mere bodies that have been delivered into the courtroom. When our motions, after many days of requests, negotiations and struggles are not given any consideration, they are always denied. Unfortunately for us and for our country, the court hears a prosecutor who constantly distorts our words and statements with impunity, neutering them. The foundational adversarial principle of the legal system is openly and demonstratively violated.

On July 30th, the first day of the trial, we presented our reaction to the prosecutors’ indictments. At that time, the court categorically refused us the right to speak, and our written texts were read aloud by our defense lawyer, Violetta Volkova. For us, this was the first opportunity we had to express ourselves after five months of incarceration. Until then we had been incarcerated, confined; we can’t do anything from there, we can’t write appeals, we can’t film what is happening around us, we have no Internet, our lawyer can’t even bring us papers because even that is forbidden. On July 30th, we spoke openly for the first time; we called for making contact and facilitating dialogue, not for battle and confrontation. We reached our hands out to the people who, for some reason, consider us their enemies, and they spat into our open hands. “You are not sincere,” they said to us. Too bad. Do not judge us according to your behavior. We spoke sincerely, as we always do—we said what we thought. We were unbelievably childlike, naïve in our truth, but nonetheless we are not sorry for our words, and this includes our words on that day. And having been maligned, we do not want to malign others in response. We are in desperate circumstances, but we do not despair. We are persecuted, but we have not been abandoned. It is easy to degrade and destroy people who are open, but “When I am weak, then I am strong.”

Listen to our words and not to what [pro-Putin television journalist] Arkady Mamontov says about us. Do not distort and falsify what we say. Allow us to enter into a dialogue, into contact with this country, which is also ours and not only the land of Putin and the Patriarch. Just like Solzhenitsyn, I believe that in the end the word will break cement. Solzhenitsyn wrote: “Thus, the word is more essential than cement. Thus, the word is not a small nothing. In this manner, noble people begin to grow, and their word will break cement.” [Solzhenitsyn, The First Circle]

Katya, Masha and I may be in prison, but I do not consider us defeated. Just as the dissidents were not defeated; although they disappeared into mental institutions and prisons, they pronounced their verdict upon the regime. The art of creating the image of an epoch does not know winners or losers. It was the same with the OBERIU poets, who remained artists until the end, inexplicable and incomprehensible. Purged in 1937, Alexander Vvedensky wrote, “The incomprehensible pleases us, the inexplicable is our friend.” According to the official death certificate, Aleksandr Vvedensky died on December 20th, 1941. No one knows the cause of death. It could have been dysentery on the train on the way to the camps; it could have been the bullet of a guard. It occurred somewhere on the railroad between Voronezh and Kazan.

Pussy Riot are Vvedensky’s students and heirs. His principle of the bad rhyme is dear to us. He wrote, “Occasionally, I think of two different rhymes, a good one and a bad one, and I always choose the bad one because it is always the right one.”

“The inexplicable is our friend”: the highbrow and refined works of the OBERIU poets and their search for thought on the edge of meaning were finally embodied when they paid with their lives, which were taken by the senseless and inexplicable Great Terror. Paying with their lives, these poets unintentionally proved that they were right to consider irrationality and senselessness the nerves of their era. Thus, the artistic became an historical fact. The price of participation in the creation of history is immeasurably great for the individual. But the essence of human existence lies precisely in this participation. To be a beggar, and yet to enrich others. To have nothing, but to possess all. One considers the OBERIU dissidents dead, but they are alive. They are punished, but they do not die.

Do you remember why young Dostoyevsky was sentenced to death? His entire guilt lay in the fact that he was fascinated by socialist theories, and during meetings of freethinkers and friends—which met on Fridays in the apartment of [Mikhail] Petrashevsky—he discussed the writings of Fourier and George Sand. On one of the last Fridays, he read Belinsky’s letter to Gogol aloud, a letter that was filled, according to the court that tried Dostoevsky (listen!) “with impudent statements against the Orthodox Church and the State government.” After all the preparations for execution and “ten agonizing, infinitely terrifying minutes awaiting death” (Dostoyevsky), it was announced that the sentence was changed to four years of hard labor in Siberia followed by military service.

Socrates was accused of corrupting the youth with his philosophical discussions and refusing to accept the Athenian gods. He had a living connection with the divine voice, and he was not, as he insisted many times, by any account an enemy of the gods. But what did that matter when Socrates irritated the influential citizens of his city with his critical, dialectical thought, free of prejudice? Socrates was sentenced to death and, having refused to escape Athens (as his students proposed), he courageously emptied a cup of hemlock and died. Have you forgotten under what circumstances Stephen, the disciple of the Apostles, concluded his earthly life? “Then they secretly induced men to say, ‘We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God.’ And they stirred up the people, the elders and the scribes, and they came up to him and dragged him away and brought him before the Council. They put forward false witnesses who said, ‘This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the Law.” [Acts 6:11-13] He was found guilty and stoned to death. I also hope that you all remember well how the Jews answered Christ: “It is not for good works that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy.” [John 10:33] And finally we would do well to keep in mind the following characterization of Christ: “He is demon-possessed and raving mad.” [John 10:20]

If the authorities, tsars, presidents, prime ministers, the people, and judges understood what “I desire mercy, not sacrifice” meant [Matthew 9:13], they would not put the innocent on trial.

Our authorities, however, still rush with condemnations, and never reprieves. To this point, I would like to thank Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev for providing us with the following excellent aphorism. He summarized his presidential term with the statement: “Liberty is better than non-liberty.” Thus in line with Medvedev’s apt words, Putin’s third term can well be characterized by the aphorism “Prison is better than stoning.” I ask that you consider carefully the following from Montaigne’s Essays, which were written in the 16th century, preaching tolerance and the skeptical rejection of any unilateral system or doctrine: “It is putting a very high value on one’s conjectures, to have a man roasted alive because of them.”

Is it worth it to pass judgment on living people and put them in prison based on conjectures not substantiated by the prosecution? Since we truly have never harbored any religious hatred or animosity, our accusers have to rely on false witnesses. One of them, Matilda Ivashchenko, became ashamed of herself and did not appear in court. Then there were the false testimonies of Mr. Troitsky and Mr. Ponkin, as well as Mrs. Abramenkova. There is no other proof of our hatred and animosity except for the so-called “expert evaluation,” which the court, if it is honest and fair, must consider unacceptable as factual proof, as it is not a rigorous and objective text but a dirty and false little paper reminiscent of the Inquisition. There is no other evidence that can confirm the existence of a motive. The prosecutors have refused to voice excerpts from Pussy Riot interviews, since these excerpts would only further prove the absence of any motive. Why wasn’t the following text by us—which, incidentally, appeared in the affidavit—presented by the prosecution? “We respect religion in general and the Orthodox faith in particular. This is why we are especially infuriated when Christian philosophy, which is full of light, is used in such a dirty fashion. It makes us sick to see such beautiful ideas forced to their knees.” This quote appeared in an interview that The Russian Reporter conducted with Pussy Riot the day after our performance. We still feel sick, and it causes us real pain to look at all this. Finally, the lack of any hatred or animosity toward religion and the religious is affirmed by all character witnesses called in to testify by our lawyers. Apart from all these character references, I ask you to consider the results of the psychological and psychiatric evaluations in jail number 6, ordered by the prison authorities. The report revealed the following: the values that I embrace are justice, mutual respect, humaneness, equality, and freedom.

This was written by a court expert, a person who does not know me personally, though it is possible that Ranchenko, the interrogator, desired a different conclusion. But it seems that there are more people in our world who love and value truth than those who don’t. The Bible is correct in this. In conclusion I would like to read the words of a Pussy Riot song, that, strange as they may be, proved prophetic. We foresaw that “the Head of the KGB and the Chief Saint of the land place the protesters under guard and take them to prison.” This was about us.

Neither myself, nor Alyokhina, nor Samutsevich were found to have powerful and stable affects or other psychological values that could be interpreted as hatred toward anything or anyone.

So:

“Open all the doors, tear off your epaulets

Come, taste freedom with us.” [Pussy Riot]

That is all.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JyyaniaV0[/youtube]
zbog ovog su ćorkirane
izvikale u najvećoj moskovskoj crvi molitvu Mariji djevi da ih oslodobi Putina i patrijarha
mješaju one tu i putina i patrijarha sa gejevima, feminzmom, bogom i Marijom, al dobro, to je bućkuriš-zločin prema panku a ne prema bogu i ljudima:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALS92big4TY[/youtube]
američki autohumor na temu:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZFdw2M-Ll8[/youtube]

_________________
Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow


Poslednji put menjao nasmjeshiti luzer dana 18 Avg 2012, 12:43, izmenjena 2 puta

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Mene samo zanima gdje se moze iskopati pornic koji je ova prva snimila? :D


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Eno i Kasparov dobi po picki zbog lezbaca


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@shakal
Sram te bilo, jel komjuter za to služi :) ?
Spoiler:
Mogu mislit kakvo je higijensko stanje miša. :D

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Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow


Poslednji put menjao nasmjeshiti luzer dana 18 Avg 2012, 12:47, izmenjena samo jedanput

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Ne provaljuj se, samo hocu da sagledam njihovu licnost iz svih aspekata prije nego donesem sud o njima. :D


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malo su dobile, trebalo je im dati jos koju godinu...
pitam se kako bi javnost reagovala da se ovakvo nesto dogodilo u Rimokatoličkoj crkvi ili Džamiji????

_________________
Da se pitalo većinu, još bismo bili na istom baobabu u Africi, jahali grane i krezavo se smijali onoj budali s vizijom što je sišla dolje, umislivši da može hodati na dvije noge i toljagom zatući mamuta...


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:)
srećno sa pronalaženjem materijala za sagledavanje ličnosti
:D
ako nađeš, postavi

@Giometar,
imam neki osjećaj da nisu lezbače, bar ne ova što priča - djeluje previše nevino, veselo i zadovoljno. Ona plava je već sumnjiva...

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angelo_gabriel je napisao:
malo su dobile, trebalo je im dati jos koju godinu...
pitam se kako bi javnost reagovala da se ovakvo nesto dogodilo u Rimokatoličkoj crkvi ili Džamiji????


pogledaj te amere što se zajebavaju, ljudi su sve objasnili tj. priznali :)

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angelo_gabriel je napisao:
malo su dobile, trebalo je im dati jos koju godinu...

Nekim ljudima treba ukinuti pristup internetu. Iz svake riječi tvoga posta izbija hrišćanski duh. :-?
Uzeti nekome dve godine života zato što je pjeva, EJ PJEVAO, nepriličnu pjesmu u crkvi.... :roll:

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Kolikim fontom da napišem kako glasi optužnica da bi ljudi vidjeli za šta su osuđene? :confused4:

_________________
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.


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Hristov je napisao:
Kolikim fontom da napišem kako glasi optužnica da bi ljudi vidjeli za šta su osuđene? :confused4:


Христов, то што су оне осуђене формално за то, то је само формално. Цели свет зна шта је прави повод суђења.

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Filozofija...


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Zanima me zasto cijeli svijet ne digne hajku kad Ameri hapse i zadrzavaju ljude, a i osudjuju, samo zbog nagovjestaja da su povezani sa terorizmom. Ne da su teroristi nego da su povezani.
Logora za takve ljude ima k'o gljiva posle kise a niko se ne buni posebno.

Mnogo ozbiljnije stvari se desavaju pred nosem od ove tri, al' eto, to je ostao zadnji globalni problem da se rijesi.


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jellyfish je napisao:
Hristov je napisao:
Kolikim fontom da napišem kako glasi optužnica da bi ljudi vidjeli za šta su osuđene? :confused4:


Христов, то што су оне осуђене формално за то, то је само формално. Цели свет зна шта је прави повод суђења.

Cijeli svijet zna ono što im serviraju zapadni mediji, većina Rusa je prema anketama osudilo huliganstvo, ispred suda u Moskvi se okupilo samo pedesetak ljudi.

_________________
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.


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Pridružio se: 23 Feb 2010, 08:22
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shakal je napisao:
Zanima me zasto cijeli svijet ne digne hajku kad Ameri hapse i zadrzavaju ljude, a i osudjuju, samo zbog nagovjestaja da su povezani sa terorizmom. Ne da su teroristi nego da su povezani.
Logora za takve ljude ima k'o gljiva posle kise a niko se ne buni posebno.

Mnogo ozbiljnije stvari se desavaju pred nosem od ove tri, al' eto, to je ostao zadnji globalni problem da se rijesi.


Bez sudjenja! ih mogu drzati neograniceno u Gvantanamu i slicnim tvorzijama.

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Pridružio se: 09 Mar 2010, 21:48
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Ma dajte ljudi, pogledajte po yu tjubu kako američka policija ubija po ulici u sred dana bez suđenja, kako na djecu od 3 godine pucaju gumenim mecima, kako prosvjednika koji mirno stoji sa tablom na kojoj je napisana neka glupost optužuju za terorizam itd. itd, a ovde se neki pametnjakovići rasšmrkali za neke tri kuje koje su tražile i dobili kaznu, rekao bih premalu.
Putin polako ali sigurno jednu uništenu i rasturenu zemlju dovodi u red, nije to lak proces i trajat će još godinama, čak i više nego što je trajala destrukcija Rusije, u tom poslu se ne bi trebao osvrtati ni na šta, a pogotove ne na zapadnjačke profuknjare.

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PostPoslato: 18 Avg 2012, 15:10 
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Pridružio se: 02 Dec 2007, 01:43
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Ma obicna glupost, pa sta ako su osudjenje, nisu ni prve ni poslednje. A krive su i te kako, ne znam cemu sad plakanje, ako su imale muda da odrade onakve izvedbe, sto sad kukaju.

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PostPoslato: 18 Avg 2012, 15:16 
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Pridružio se: 04 Feb 2008, 11:28
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realno, dugo su se i zafrkavale s putinom, valjda su zaboravle da bi mogle zavrst,,, u,,, sibiru??! :oops: :fadein:


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PostPoslato: 18 Avg 2012, 15:20 
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Pridružio se: 21 Okt 2010, 18:53
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_зока je napisao:
angelo_gabriel je napisao:
malo su dobile, trebalo je im dati jos koju godinu...

Nekim ljudima treba ukinuti pristup internetu. Iz svake riječi tvoga posta izbija hrišćanski duh. :-?
Uzeti nekome dve godine života zato što je pjeva, EJ PJEVAO, nepriličnu pjesmu u crkvi.... :roll:

Živo me zanima šta bi bilo da su pankeri uletili u Vatikansku kapelu, Jerusalimsku sinagogu ili džamiju u Istambulu.....čisto sumnjam da bi im dobri vjernici oprostili u duhu vjere :-?

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U meni spava genije, ali je zato budala uvijek budna.


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PostPoslato: 18 Avg 2012, 15:20 
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Pridružio se: 04 Feb 2008, 11:28
Postovi: 1234
_зока je napisao:
angelo_gabriel je napisao:
malo su dobile, trebalo je im dati jos koju godinu...

Nekim ljudima treba ukinuti pristup internetu. Iz svake riječi tvoga posta izbija hrišćanski duh. :-?
Uzeti nekome dve godine života zato što je pjeva, EJ PJEVAO, nepriličnu pjesmu u crkvi.... :roll:

a sto bas u crkvi??? zar to nije uvreda za sve vjernike??? i ko zna sta bi jos neki napravili za "slavu"? znaci svi "normalni" ljudi bi treba"tolerisat" divljanje idiota? :oops: :roll:


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PostPoslato: 18 Avg 2012, 15:27 
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Pridružio se: 15 Nov 2002, 13:51
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avatarx je napisao:
_зока je napisao:
angelo_gabriel je napisao:
malo su dobile, trebalo je im dati jos koju godinu...

Nekim ljudima treba ukinuti pristup internetu. Iz svake riječi tvoga posta izbija hrišćanski duh. :-?
Uzeti nekome dve godine života zato što je pjeva, EJ PJEVAO, nepriličnu pjesmu u crkvi.... :roll:

a sto bas u crkvi??? zar to nije uvreda za sve vjernike??? i ko zna sta bi jos neki napravili za "slavu"? znaci svi "normalni" ljudi bi treba"tolerisat" divljanje idiota? :oops: :roll:

Zar nije uvreda za sve vjernike da popovi mašu zlatnim krstovima, kade zlatnim kandilima, voze džipove od sto hiljada maraka, krovove crkvi oblažu zlatom, svoje palate i vladičanske dvore kite umjetninama dok ne izgledaju bogatije od Luvra? I to sve ljudi koji su se zakleli na skromnost, vrlinu i brigu o duhovnim vrijednostima?
nepokoreni je napisao:
Živo me zanima šta bi bilo da su pankeri uletili u Vatikansku kapelu, Jerusalimsku sinagogu ili džamiju u Istambulu.....čisto sumnjam da bi im dobri vjernici oprostili u duhu vjere :-?
Što vi sve okrećete na stranu "šta bi bilo da je u Vatikanu"? Da u Vatikanu jedu govna bi li i vi jeli?

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